Author Topic: Where do we go from here?  (Read 323 times)

Offline kamio

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Where do we go from here?
« on: October 23, 2017, 06:39:08 AM »
I am not sure where to post this...

Browsing all the old posts, it's a shame at all the content that was shared, but is currently not readily available.  I've offered to help with the technical stuff in the past and never received a reply, but I want to move forward and if possible help restore the content and community.

I have a couple of questions that I would get some feedback on:

1) Is there interest in restoring the community?  I want to get a pulse on who is still "round here" (pun intended)  :P

2) With the advent of cloud storage (google/dropbox/etc.)...  Should we run a torrent server, or take advantage of the cloud to store these items?

3) Is it still legal to share bootlegs?  The link in the FAQ on this site, that used to point to the CC website, is dead.  Not to mention that CC sells their latest sets on countingcrowslive.com (so I am not sure how it all works out now).  I wouldn't want to do anything that is illegal and or get us into any trouble.

Thank you and I look forward to your replies.

Offline cmstewart21

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 02:11:59 PM »
1. Can't speak for everyone, but I still really value this community. And I think getting the tech stuff fixed would benefit that.


2. I think having both would be best - torrents seem to be safer for downloading because you know the exact files you're getting. With external postings, the files can vary and sometimes you get lossy flac files... which I've experienced recently. I'd love to have torrents working again.


3. I believe it's actually wrong to sell bootlegs that haven't been sold to the public. Unless it was an official bootleg sold by CC, there's no restriction on sharing it as far as I know.


Dutchie, do you know how to get in touch with Simon if a tech guy wants to help get crows-town going again?
I could break like a bird and I could swallow the sea.

Offline dutchieblue

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 04:36:20 PM »
Kamio,sorry you never got a reply.At the time i did give Simon the message and asked if he was still interested but he was not.It's a shame but in his defence he did so many things for this site/community and he tried to get a working tracker several times.The last time they got so close but there comes a time when you say enough is enough.

1.Still here, still somewhat active and Crowstown will always be my favorite CC site so i would welcome a more active community.

2.Over the years i've changed my mind on this topic.In the past i would think why torrents when there are faster and easier ways to share shows.
   Now i think you need a tracker to get people to participate and get an active community.If not you get the situation like it is now,a few people uploading shows and almost everyone downloading anonymous.

3.As long as we don't hear otherwise from the band i asume nothing has changed and we can still share shows and audience recordings even if that same show is for sale on LCC.Obviously we can't share shows that we bought there.The band is well aware of this site so if it was no longer allowed i think they would let us know.

Offline cmstewart21

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 09:23:27 PM »
There's something about the words in that post that... just kills me.
I could break like a bird and I could swallow the sea.

Offline thehappymundays

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2017, 01:51:45 AM »
I check in most days I pretty much have all the shows I want but its a habit

Offline kamio

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 03:03:03 AM »
With regard to #3,  While the band might be cool with it... Lawyers might give us a C&D.  When I did a Google search, the only thing I could find was a blog article, where I guy put up a show he recorded and then received a C&D and removed it:  http://bbchron.blogspot.com/2014/12/counting-crows-2014-11-23-alcatraz.html

I'd feel more comfortable if I knew that it was still acceptable.  Can anyone reach out to the band and get their take/blessing?  I don't use social media.
Also, If we stuck to only things not offered on CCL, what will prevent CCL (CCL is a 3rd party... nubz.com or something) from leeching then selling the old stuff, forcing us to shut down? 
It would just be nice to get clarification/blessing from the band.

In the meantime, I could probably setup a tracker.  I just need to host it somewhere.

At one time, it seems like it was hosted on this domain.  Not sure if it was just a service running on the forum's hosting provided, or if it was pointing to a different location.

Can someone get my in touch with the people that pay/own the forum?

I am ready to move on this, if it is still allowed by the band and we can get hosting for the tracker.

Thanks!

Offline allenduritz

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2017, 03:19:19 AM »
I miss the year 2006 when the tracker and torrents were available. I remember the Sounds from the Nest website and also Simon uploading bootlegs to another site, which closed, before Crows Town was started. Memories  :'( . Obtaining older Counting Crows' bootlegs is a difficult task now......so I am endlessly waiting.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 03:27:57 AM by allenduritz »

Offline cmstewart21

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 03:42:51 AM »
I can't see what would motivate the band to forbid people from trading things they aren't making any money on. I would never upload free downloads of what they put out there for purchase (either their studio albums or live bootlegs, including LCC.com). But the stuff that's been recorded by fans, and just been circulating on its own seems pointless to forbid since they'll make no money off it and just piss off their loyal fans. We are actually some of their biggest promoters, and support them by attending all these shows.


I remember in an article from about 10 years ago Adam was asked (and crows-town was even mentioned in the interview) about all their live recordings. And he responded saying he couldn't understand why bands would forbid that. He saw it as free promotion for their work (since they didn't have to exert any effort for US to go record the show, we did it freely) and stated also that it would be hypocritical for him to frown on it, since he has a wall of bootlegs in his own home. So I just don't see CC as changing things up, except for the stuff they themselves put out there and sell.


Maybe someone has more official info on their current stance, but that's how I understand it.
I could break like a bird and I could swallow the sea.

Offline cmstewart21

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2017, 03:54:26 AM »
I miss the year 2006 when the tracker and torrents were available. I remember the Sounds from the Nest website and also Simon uploading bootlegs to another site, which closed, before Crows Town was started. Memories  :'( . Obtaining older Counting Crows' bootlegs is a difficult task now......so I am endlessly waiting.

Yeah. I feel pretty hopeless about losing the music I have. I'd seriously drive across the country with a flash drive if someone was open to help me recapture what I've lost/missed out on. But I only feel like a burden asking. I'll just keep my eyes peeled for someone to come along with a great collection that's open & willing to share/trade with me. It's hard. Which is why I'll always gladly share the bootlegs I own because I know how much joy that brings people.
I could break like a bird and I could swallow the sea.

Online cmigs

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2017, 09:27:40 PM »
I do think Dutchie makes an excellent point about the value of the tracker being in the way it builds community. It's really fundamental to creating a sharing environment where everyone is involved, as opposed to just creating a share drive. But hey, we may be wrong! May be torrents for this sort of sharing are as outdated as B&Ps.

If people want a share drive to exist... make one. It's not hard work, but it is time consuming. It's not expensive to get 1TB of space on Google Drive or whatever. So set it up, make your own contributions, and ask others to contribute. See how it goes.

On the question of whether the band is still okay with sharing - barring them making a statement, I would assume they are still fine with it. They have been massive proponents of sharing over the years (ever notice that the catalog shows released on LCC filled in gaps in what was being traded? That's because they were consulting big sharers in the community). Those who own their publishing rights have certainly been fine with everything I've put on Youtube over the last few months.

Offline cmstewart21

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2017, 02:59:54 AM »
That idea sounds as good Chris! And doable, if we have enough members willing to pitch in their shows to a cloud drive, I'd be more than happy to supply the space. 2TB of space on sync.com is just $98 a year. I imagine that'd be enough to store all the audio/video bootlegs we have? Using Simon's db spreadsheet we could try to get all the shows added. It would be a bit different than torrent sharing, but it would still be a collaboration and help us all explore more CC material... which is what brought us to crows-town. Who else would like to take part in something like that? Any thoughts/ideas?
I could break like a bird and I could swallow the sea.

Offline yidosengland

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2017, 10:03:13 AM »
I check in most days I pretty much have all the shows I want but its a habit

couldnt have put it better
Andy , somewhere in the heart of Sherwood Forest in little old England

Offline dutchieblue

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2017, 11:09:13 AM »
Same here i'm not a completist and have all the shows i need and more.

Online cmigs

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2017, 05:46:48 PM »
That idea sounds as good Chris! And doable, if we have enough members willing to pitch in their shows to a cloud drive, I'd be more than happy to supply the space. 2TB of space on sync.com is just $98 a year. I imagine that'd be enough to store all the audio/video bootlegs we have? Using Simon's db spreadsheet we could try to get all the shows added. It would be a bit different than torrent sharing, but it would still be a collaboration and help us all explore more CC material... which is what brought us to crows-town. Who else would like to take part in something like that? Any thoughts/ideas?

I can certainly help. I'm with the others in that I don't need more shows, but I also think it'd be preferable if a show request is being made that the upload could exist long-term.

One think I think is important - keep it organized. Break things up by year, keep a naming convention (something like Year.Month.Day - Location - Venue AUD/SBD/FM).

And yes, 2TBs should be more than enough. I think a while ago someone I was talking with pegged a complete collection as a bit over 1TB, but that was a guess (and a few years ago).

Offline JavaJones

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Re: Where do we go from here?
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2017, 11:43:07 PM »
Coincidentally I was just coming here to let people know that I was having to move the website again. The domain will stay the same, just moving to a new host. But there will be 24-48hrs of downtime involved. I'll have to take the forums down by tomorrow and they'll remain closed until the switch completes.

As for the main point of this thread, hosting a torrent tracker is a bit of a pain, and a resource hog. That's why I haven't been able to since taking over the overall hosting. I kept the forums alive, that was the best I could do. I've had intermittent interest from people here and there to help, but nobody sticks with it to actually get anything new implemented (e.g. a tracker), so it has stayed this way.

If someone is able to put up a tracker on a normal shared hosting service, I'm happy to let them try, but resources and access are usually an issue in such setups in my experience.

Honestly I'm not confident myself that torrents are the way to go. They require people to sit around and seed, use up their outgoing bandwidth, and for what? Does anyone actually have any *proof* that they "increase community"? I don't really know why torrents in themselves would, unless you call contributing to bandwidth "community". But someone can do that totally silently and never contribute anything beyond bandwidth; conversely someone on a dialup connection might be very active here on the forums. I don't think there is a direct corollary.

As an alternative, the community could consider using one of the many free file sharing services such as Mega.nz, or collectively pitching in to pay for large (and convenient) file hosting from one of the big players like Google, Amazon, etc. 1TB with Google is $10/mo or $100/yr. 2TB is $20/mo. And the advantage to that vs. torrenting is high speed download straight from Google and unlimited downloads. Of course it does mean one person (or a small group) has to be responsible for managing the files. https://drive.google.com/settings/storage

Anyway, I'll make a general announcement about the downtime. I'll bring the forums back up on a new host and you can continue the discussion there and decide what you want to do. I remain committed to hosting the forums, but can't promise anything more than that.

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